Exclusive Interview with Pasadena Police Chief Phillip L. Sanchez

Exclusive Interview with Pasadena Police Chief Phillip L. Sanchez

In an exclusive interview on The Hutchinson Report Newsmaker Hour with host Earl Ofari Hutchinson on KTYM 1460 AM Los Angeles on April 6, with Pasadena Police Chief Phillip L. Sanchez

Transcription by Annette Lockett, McAl Typing Service * 4239 Denker Avenue * Los Angeles, CA 90062 * 323-293-3244 * FAX 323-293-0404 * E-Mail ptnana@pacbell.net * http://McALTypingService.com

EOH:   Why did you feel it so important to get an independent review from the OIR {Office of Independent Review} and the FBI?

PLS:     I think it is important because of transparency and openness.  These are independent review groups that come in and look at every aspect of the incident from policies and procedures through tactics.  I think that is critically important towards openness for the public.

EOH:   When the OIR and even the FBI make recommendations and find fault, what happens?

PLS:     First of all, in 2009 the Pasadena Police Department also invited Mr. Gennaco in, so we have a yard stick to measure our performance; what were we then, and are now.  I think Mr. Gennaco is going to look at every aspect of the shooting.  Ultimately, if there is misconduct identified, I will look at that and after internal affairs investigation, discipline can run the range from written reprimand to termination.  If there is criminal culpability, it can result in prosecution of the officers.

EOH:   The officers are now on leave.  Is there any time frame for the two officers to come back to the department?

PLS:     They are on leave currently, which is our protocol and practice following a major incident like this.  I am the final authority with respect to when they will return to work.  Whether or not they will return to uniform patrol or work a different assignment will be reviewed as we move forward on this journey.

EOH:   If there is misconduct, what have you done in the past as far as punishment?

PLS:     Discipline can be many different things.  It can be an educational tool to help the officers understand what they did wrong, why they acted the way they did, how to prepare them not to act that way again, what’s in their heart.  Was it malicious or an accident?  Again, it goes from a written reprimand on the low end to termination on the high.  What’s important to understand is that there is a process the department has to go through in internal investigation.  Then there’s an assessment of the totality of circumstances and a history of discipline.  You may have an employee who never made a mistake and has never had disciplinary issues, and makes a conduct issue, versus an employee who has demonstrated a pattern of poor behavior.  There could be two different outcomes.  I typically look at these things in the totality of circumstances.  What’s been the impact on the officer and citizens we serve and the perception of the citizen with respect to that engagement.  In Pasadena we also have some rich mediation opportunities with the Western Justice Center.  From time to time my officers will engage in the mediation process.  The way that works, we have a citizen who has made a complaint or is angry about the engagement.  We sit down with the Western Justice Center, the officer and the citizen and they are able to hear each other’s perspective.  They may agree to disagree, but the mediation process avails itself to the citizens and officers as well.

EOH:   What is the “Use of Force Board” and what does it do?

PLS:     Prior to my arrival, the department did have a Use of Force Board.  That board involved some of our citizen volunteers that were able to serve with anonymity, so that their information was not out there.  Since my arrival, there was a series of requests for information about those individuals and who they were.  Citizens would go through the police academy, receive training in use of force, have an understanding of our policies, procedures, and regulations, but you were a citizen volunteer in that group.  When there was the request for disclosure of those individuals, there was a lesser sense of comfort, in part because of perceived or real consequences that could occur on being associated with that the Use of Force Board.  The board was set aside and in its place we have an Administrative Review.  Currently, when an officer goes to a call and he or she uses force in the field, the first element of review is I have a Supervisor go out and interview people as quickly as possible, and documents the use of force on our internal documentation.  That is reviewed by the second layer of supervision, our Lieutenants, then to a Commander, then the Deputy Chief and ultimately to me.  The review process is robust and involves looking at the incident from every angle.  Various things might come out of that; possibly training or discipline.  The entire incident is reviewed through that process to ensure we are getting at what force means and how it is used.  Last year in Pasadena we made about 8500 arrests, including misdemeanors and felonies.  We used force less than 1% of the time in these arrests. 

EOH:   That is a low figure.  In comparison with other police departments, where does that rank?

PLS:     I can’t give you specific numbers about any of the other agencies in Los Angeles County.  There are 48 independent municipalities as well as the Sheriff’s department; state, local and federal, all as a conglomerate in LA County.  But in comparison, I think generally that is a very low figure and I think it suggests a sense of sound decision making and good training and education of the officers, which is a critical component to understanding when and how to use force.

EOH:   Have you found in any of these situations that force was not justified, and disciplinary action taken?

PLS:     It’s important to understand that a “perfect use of force situation” is like a Unicorn.  Everybody knows what it looks like, but nobody has ever seen one.  The application of force is ongoing and dynamic.  The thing that strikes me most profound about our policy is the preamble, the introduction, when it talks about the respect of life, appreciation for life and the sense of reasonableness when force is used.  That really is the platform about the philosophical understanding on what force really means and how it might be best applied.  With respect to lethal force, the Pasadena Police Department follows the laws of the land.  The training is not only going to the police range and firing their weapons; it’s also part of our policy that officers receive scenario training through a simulated system.  It’s also important to verify the officers understand the training and the policies.  We don’t just say here’s the policy and procedures manual, understand that.  We have Supervisors who go over that training in our assembly meetings and we verify that training by written tests.

EOH:   If the DA decided not to file charges against Oscar Carrillo, and tossed it back to your department, what would your response be?

PLS:     We know factually there was a crime committed.  In fact, against the minor, there were four charges filed, 2 counts of Commercial Burglary, 1 count of Grand Theft, and 1 count of failure to report as a gang member.  That’s factual and has been filed by the District Attorney.  With respect to Mr. Carrillo, the threshold for an arrest is different than the threshold for prosecution.  My job as top cop is to make sure my officers understand the law, are quick to discharge it fairly and equally; and they do that routinely.  When Mr. Carrillo was arrested, we had a comprehensive investigative report we submitted to the District Attorney’s Office.  They sent it back to the Pasadena Police Department; Rejected, Further Review.  The message, as I interpret it, is it’s a complex case and they are trying to figure out whether or not they have the elements for prosecution.  I had the elements and made the arrest for manslaughter.  The threshold for prosecution leads back to the District Attorney’s office.  If the District Attorney elects not to file that charge and return it to me with no other review, my intent is to take it to the Pasadena City attorney’s office and have them review the case and come up with the appropriate charges.

EOH:   What would you like to see done to minimize the possibility of another Kendrec McDade happening?

PLS:     It is an absolute tragedy when these kinds of things occur.  The greater dialogue has to be “what are we doing as adults to change the environment for our young people?”  Since the McDade shooting we have had four other shooting incidents between Pasadena and Altadena.  Where is the dialogue about those shootings?  Where is the dialogue about parental involvement, better education, jobs?  Those are the kinds of things that are going to act as an antidote so we are not back here discussing these kinds of things again.  Education, opportunity, jobs, all those things, parental involvement, parental supervision, creates hope, dreams and aspirations.  The shootings I was talking about were gang related shootings between young men.  Young men of color continue to shoot at and kill one another and we need to have that discussion as well.